Satu lagi koleksi Gazelle Andre Koopmans… Serial number nya 58334, framenya ukuran 660mm (mesti cari trotoar buat naikin nih hehehe)
menurut cing Koopmans, ban belakangnya Gazelle buatan Vredestein dari sebelum perang (1937) dan masih bisa dipake walaupun sudah melekat kuat dengan pelk nya
masih pake transfer merk, di transfer merk tertulis: Arentsen & Kölling, Dieren, gambar atasnya bukan kijang lompat namun cuma kepala kijang doang. gantungan lampu terdapat di batang stir, rem depannya menapak ke ban… sayang sudah ga ada
perhatikan girnya… beda dengan yang banyak beredar disini, keluaran dari tahun 1912 – 1929… pedalnya tentu aja oririnal Gazelle
www.sepeda.wordpress.com 
pasti….!! tinggalan sang embah,top abis frend.aku juga pengen.
seri brapa klo gini ini….
Arep numpak pit ndadak golek dingklek …
duwuuuuurr buanget …. ukuran 26 kah ???
mwantap tenan……..
gearnya cakep bgt, btw itu motif batik pekalongan apa solo ya..oh ya ampun ada tulisan gazelle nya…edan top top top markotop gud marsogud tol marko….
hiks..no coment akh takut mupeng ..
“Salam Damai…”
Emang Gazelle Mania ya, Mr. Andre Koopmans ini…
“Salam Damai…”
Wow!
Very impressive Andre. You even have the pump! Is the leather on the saddle original?
Thanks for sharing this with us.
Matur Nuwun,
Pak Bulap
ini sepeda gilee beneeer, bikin ngileeer…
lumrahlah kalau muncul barang ajaib gini, soalnya Gazelle kan aslinya Belanda. Sama saja kalau ngomong keris, batik, atau ukiran Jepara. Belanda yang ganti ngileeer…liat koleksi orang-orang kite.
gitu katanya sih 😉
Putu,
sepedanya balibul yang pernah ditawarin ke saya mirip-mirip dikit ama foto gazelle di atas yang milik andre koopmans.
Kalo minat hubungi langsung aja si Balibul.
kata dari Arentsen & Kölling, Dieren itu pabrikan juga ya , sama seperti rijwiel kan, mohon penjelasannya
The leather of the saddle is original, but the saddle is not as old as the bike I think.
Hi Mr Andre..welcome back, long time no see your comment..I see the picture on your flicker, what if old bicycle lover in Indonesia can join with your old bicycle gathering….Wow… I can’t imagine that…..
Hallo Laexs and the others,
I can imagine that you would love to “shop” old bicycles in Holland. In Holland a nice old oldtimer bicycle can be bought for the money what an average man in Holland earns in about 3 hours working, realy.
Last Sunday, after the tour of “vereniging de oude fiets” in Norg (photo’s on my Flickr-space) Theo de Kogel, Me and some other members spoke about a old-bicycle-wish we wanted to happen.
Theo sayd he would like to find an old Fongers from before 1910, I had a similar wish and others had the same and we laughed about it, because such things (almost) never happen…..ALMOST………but what happened the next day was unbelievable !
I can tell you, yesterday I had “a day of my live” again !
I found an old bicycle for sale here in the north of Holland where I live, (on the Marktplaats site) and the man who sold it was saying it was a very old Male Gazelle.
I went to his house after work to look at his for sale bicycle.
When I arrived there I saw it was no Gazelle but a very old Fongers.
The man thougt it was a Gazelle because there was a Gazelle saddle on it…..
The only visible mark on the frame was; “BB 60” So this bicycle had once been the most expensive Fongers made many years ago !
At that time I did not know how old the bike was because we could not find the frame(serial) number, but I have seen enough old Fongers to see it was very old !
So I bought the Fongers from the man for a normal old-bicycle-price and I went home with the bicycle to look for the frame-number.
When I brushed of the 2 layers of (extra)paint and some rust, I could not believe my eayes when I read the framenumber; 27125 (!!!) This Fongers must be from about 1906 or 1907 I guess !
You can not emagine how happy I was (am) with this bicycle !
These very early Fongers have parts that were not yet develloped as far as the later Fongers bicycles we know.
It has many special details that are different on such an early bike.
It is made as a precision machine, with both back-forks build up with lugs and also the front-fork is lugged and very rare with a nickle top.
The chain-tightener is not on the back at the back-wheel, but exentric on the bracket, just like a tandem ! The wheel at the back is positioned in a nice precision-lug, I had never seen this before, and now it is in my shed !
The back-wheel and the saddle are not original, the rest is original.
When you span the chain you do not put the back-axel backwards, but in fact you turn the crancs and bracket forwards !!
This is one of the oldest Fongers in Holland, I am shore about that.
Next week I go to the old Fongers Archive in Groningen.
In the old Fongers Archive are all (!!) Fongers bicycles that Fongers has ever made noted, with Type, extra’s and the date of delivery and the name of the person who bought it. If the bicycle ever has been back to the factory for revision, this is also noted in the archive ! Also the history of every Fongers bicycle is noted in the archive ! Incredible isn’t it !?
I believe the Fongers transported to Indonesia are named as;
“Export Indië” with the merchant who bought it for reselling in your country. I will look next week.
With my serial(frame)number I can exactely find in the archive the day Fongers 27125 was delivered and who bought it about 100 years ago !
The bike is ugly repainted at least 2 times but I already found 2 small peases of the original double green striping (biezen) from under the paint.
The old braking-systeme is completely missing, but now I have something to look at and try to make this very rare bicycle complete and make it original again, it will be very difficult, but a nice challenge !
Photo’s will follow as soon as I cleaned the bike.
I am so happy with is, super, isn’t it !?
Sometimes wonders happen…..
Best wihes to you all,
Andre
salam kenal,setelah melihat dan menyimak, ternyata sepeda ontel semakin diminati dan semakin banyak penggemarnya,terutama sekali sebagai warisan dari pendahulu kita,kita seyogyanya ikut serta melestarikannya,saya salut akan semangat dan kerja keras atas usaha ini dan yang membanggakan juga yaitu penggemar sepeda tua bukan dari kalangan yang ingin bernostalgia saja tapi juga para generasi muda ikut mendukung dan melestarikannya,maka dari itu saya dari hati yang paling dalam saya salut dan turut mendukung selalu. Terima kasih .Salam kenal kepada semua ontelis dimanapun berada.
yach ampun……ampun………..ini memang bener – bener gazellenya ….gazelle…… ( embah…embahnya Gazelle ) ghitu….. he he he………..
1915 :THE FIMA WORDT DOOR DE KOLLING EN HUN NEEF JAN BREUKINK OMGEZET IN “N.V. GAZELLE RIJWIELFABRIEK V/H ARENTSEN EN KOLLING.
TO MR KOOPMAN PLEASE TRANSLATE THIS BECAUSE I FOUND A OLD BICYCLE WITH BRAND ” SEKO” AND ABOVE A PLATE ARENTSEN EN KOLLING.
PLEASE HELP ME MR KOOPMAN TO IDENTIFICATION ABOUT ‘SEKO’ BICYCLE.
AND IWANT KNOW ABOUT ARENTSEN EN KOLLING, THIS A FABRIK LIKE RIJWIEL?
THANKS AND I WAIT YOUR ANSWER
Man Andre… I thought I was bad! It is nice to know that there is someone as addicted to old bicycles as myself. I feel a little less crazy now. I am sure that my wife will remind me the next time I come home with ANOTHER bike. I will try to translate your great post for our brothers in Indonesia.
Warm regards from Canada,
Bulap
pengalamannya koq sama sih hehehe
Hey kawan2 saya akan coba mempertejemahkan postnya kang Andre…
Here goes…
Hallo Laexs and the others,
I can imagine that you would love to “shop” old bicycles in Holland.
{Saya kira anda kalian senang sekali “buru2” sepeda lama di Belanda}
In Holland a nice old oldtimer bicycle can be bought for the money what an average man in Holland earns in about 3 hours working, realy.
{Di Belanda sebuah pit lawas mantap dapat dibeli dengan harga kira2 sama dengan pendapatan biasa 3 jam kerja.}
Last Sunday, after the tour of “vereniging de oude fiets” in Norg (photo’s on my Flickr-space)
{Hari Minggu yang lalu, habis tour pit lawas di Norg ( foto2 berada di Flickr Andre)…}
Theo de Kogel, Me and some other members spoke about a old-bicycle-wish we wanted to happen.
{Theo de Kogel (temannya Andre) dan beberapa anggota lain ngobrol sambil melamun tentang “Kepinginan-Pit-Lawas” yang kita sangat berharap masing2.}
Theo sayd he would like to find an old Fongers from before 1910,
{Theo bilang bahwa dia pingin dapat se-edisi Fongers tahunnya sebelum 1910,}
I had a similar wish and others had the same and we laughed about it,
{Kalau saya juga mau begitu. Ternyata semuanya pingin sama dengan yang diceritakan Theo. Kami tertawa,}
because such things (almost) never happen…..ALMOST………but what happened the next day was unbelievable !
{karena sangat jarang, hampir tidak pernah ketemu sepeda yang tersebut…HAMPIR…tapi yang terjadi besoknya sangat tidak dapat dipercayakan juga!}
I can tell you, yesterday I had “a day of my live” again !
{Dapat dibilang bahwa kemarin saya menikmati salah satunya hari terbaik seumur hidupku!}
I found an old bicycle for sale here in the north of Holland where I live,
{Saya ketemu sesepeda dijual di daerahku sini, Belanda Utara,}
(on the Marktplaats site) and the man who sold it was saying it was a very old Male Gazelle.
{(di situs Markplaats) dan penjualnya bilang bahwa sepedanya adalah Gazelle Herren yang sangat tua.}
I went to his house after work to look at his for sale bicycle.
{Habis kerja saya ke rumahnya buat lihat sepedanya.}
When I arrived there I saw it was no Gazelle but a very old Fongers.
{Ketika sudah sampai, saya lihat…ternyata bukan Gazelle, tapi Fongers LUAAMA.}
The man thougt it was a Gazelle because there was a Gazelle saddle on it…..
{Sepedanya dikirakan Gazelle karena pakai sadel Gazelle…}
The only visible mark on the frame was; “BB 60″ So this bicycle had once been the most expensive Fongers made many years ago !
{# tunggal yang dapat dilihat adalah”BB 60″, yaitu model yang paling mahal dari Fongers pada tahun2 DULU}
At that time I did not know how old the bike was because we could not find the frame(serial) number, but I have seen enough old Fongers to see it was very old !
{Pada saat itu saya nggak pasti umurnya sepeda itu karena # serinya tdk kelihatan, tapi menurut pengalaman saya Fongers ini sangat tua!}
So I bought the Fongers from the man for a normal old-bicycle-price and I went home with the bicycle to look for the frame-number.
{Jadi begitu saya beli sepedanya dengan harga biasa, terus dibawa ke rumahku buat cari # serinya.}
When I brushed of the 2 layers of (extra)paint and some rust, I could not believe my eayes when I read the framenumber; 27125 (!!!) This Fongers must be from about 1906 or 1907 I guess !
{Habis saya hilangin lapisan cat dua sama karat, saya ngak bercaya mataku sendiri…#nya 27125(!!!) Saya kira Fongers ini dari tahun 1906/7!}
You can not emagine how happy I was (am) with this bicycle !
(Anda tidak bisa menghayal kesenangan saya dengan sepeda ini!}
These very early Fongers have parts that were not yet develloped as far as the later Fongers bicycles we know.
{Fongers2 ini dari thn dulu2 pakai onderdil yang tidak sesempurnah(?) dengan Fongers2 yang tereder tahun lebih mudah.}
It has many special details that are different on such an early bike.
{Ada beberapa detail yang sangat Ciri khas pada jamannya.}
It is made as a precision machine, with both back-forks build up with lugs and also the front-fork is lugged and very rare with a nickle top.
{Kerangkanya dirakit secara sangat presis dan rapi. Keduanya garpu belakang sama depan pakai Lugs (maaf saya tidak tahu kata untuk lug. Seperi sok tang jadi konensi antar tubnya rangka. seperti yang dipakai sepedabalapku…Bulap). Garpu depan juga dilapisin Nikel diatasnya.}
The chain-tightener is not on the back at the back-wheel, but exentric on the bracket, just like a tandem !
{Buat stel perapatan rantai, tidak pakai alat di as belekang, tapi ada eksentrik di Bracket bawah, seperti yang dipakai sepeda tandem!}
The wheel at the back is positioned in a nice precision-lug, I had never seen this before, and now it is in my shed !
{Roda belakang terletak sama lug yang presis, Tidak pernah saya lihat sesuatu begini, dan sekarang beradah di gudangku!}
The back-wheel and the saddle are not original, the rest is original.
{Roda belakang sama sadel tidak orisinel, yang lain masih}
When you span the chain you do not put the back-axel backwards, but in fact you turn the crancs and bracket forwards !!
{Jadi untuk meraptkan rantai, bukan roda yang mundur ke belakang, tapi gir dan pedal yang maju ke depan!!}
This is one of the oldest Fongers in Holland, I am shore
about that.
{ini salah satu Fongers yang paling tua di Belanda, Saya pastilah.}
Next week I go to the old Fongers Archive in Groningen.
{Minggu depan saya mau ke Arkiv Fongers di Groningen.}
In the old Fongers Archive are all (!!) Fongers bicycles that Fongers has ever made noted, with Type, extra’s and the date of delivery and the name of the person who bought it.
{Di sana ada sejaranya setiap sepeda yang pernah dibuat sama Fongers. Adalah informasi seperti tipe, asesories, tanggal beli dan nama orang yang pertama belinya.}
If the bicycle ever has been back to the factory for revision, this is also noted in the archive !
{Jikalau pernah sepeda dikirim kembali pada paberik buat servis, juga di tulisin!}
Also the history of every Fongers bicycle is noted in the archive ! Incredible isn’t it !?
{Juga adalah sejaranya setiap sepeda Fongers tertulis dibuku sana! Mengherankan kan?!}
I believe the Fongers transported to Indonesia are named as;
“Export Indië” with the merchant who bought it for reselling in your country. I will look next week.
{ Saya kira kalu Fongers yang terkirim pada Indonesia di namakan sebagai, “Export Indië” dengan name diler yang beli buat dijual lagi di negara Anda. Saya akan lihat minggu depan.}
With my serial(frame)number I can exactely find in the archive the day Fongers 27125 was delivered and who bought it about 100 years ago !
{ dengan # Seriku saya dapt tahu presis hari ulang tahun si Fongers 27125, dan siapa pembelinya 100 tahun yang lalu!}
The bike is ugly repainted at least 2 times but I already found 2 small peases of the original double green striping (biezen) from under the paint.
{Keadan sepedanya sekarang sangat jelek karena sudah dicat ulang 2 kali, tapi saya sudah ketemu dua garis tipis dan hijau yang asli tertutup catnya.}
The old braking-systeme is completely missing, but now I have something to look at and try to make this very rare bicycle complete and make it original again, it will be very difficult, but a nice challenge !
{Sistim rem adalah absen, tapi sekarang saya bisa lihat sepedanya dan pikirkan tentang prosesnya buat memperbaiki kondisinya agar bisa orisinel lagi. Pasti akan sukar, tapi juga akan percobaan manis!
Photo’s will follow as soon as I cleaned the bike.
{Saya akan kirim beberapa foto sehabis sepedanya saya membersihkan.}
I am so happy with is, super, isn’t it !?
{Begitu senang saya! Baguslah?!}
Sometimes wonders happen…..
{Kadang2 yang ajaib terjadi…}
Best wihes to you all,
Andre
Maaf kalau Bahasa Indo-ku gaya orang ngantuk…Pak Bulap betul2 ngantuk, udah malam sekali. Bule harus bubuk…Selamat malam woro2…
Bulap
Hallo Bulap, r11c and others,
Bulap, I did not know you live in Canada, do you have old Dutch bikes there also ? You and all others are not crazy, we just have an extreme passion for old bicycles. And yes, wives (almost) never understand this, they always say old bicycles are rubbish. I did not tell my wive about the old Fongers, because she will spoil all the joy I have from it, I am shore she would say she would rather buy a nice skirt for the money or something like that…..
There are some rare examples who have the same passion as us old-bicycle-boys, but they are very seldom….
r11c (strange name),
translation;
1915 :THE FIMA WORDT DOOR DE KOLLING EN HUN NEEF JAN BREUKINK OMGEZET IN “N.V. GAZELLE RIJWIELFABRIEK V/H ARENTSEN EN KOLLING.
1915 ; The factory(name) is changed by the Kölling’s and their nefew Breuking in “n.v. Gazelle rijwielfabriek, previous name Arentsen en Kölling.
Arentsen (first)and Kölling were the 2 man who started the Gazelle factory (brand), you can read the whole story on the beautiful and very accurate website (the best) of mr. Herbert Kühner, this site is in Dutch, English and German, chose the “union jack”-flag English version, and the whole website is in English !
The name “seko” I have never heared from, I think the plate “Arentsen en Kölling” is put on the bicycle later on by some enthousiast….
greetings !
Andre
Andre, a nice story about fantastic-old Fongers hunting. I wish sometimes wonders happen in here too, especially on Indonesian old-bicycles seeking.
Thank you very much for the translation of my mail Bulap !
Mr, Andre the frame number of your fongers is 27125, and the number of my fongers (laexs.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/fongers-bb-204264/) are 204264 , hows the olders??
Mr, Andre …if you had go to the old Fongers Archive in Groningen, can you copyed the list and share with Us.
Thanks
dear Laexs,
I can imagine you find this strange.
Your description of your old Fongers I send, together with the photo’s of it, to mr. Herbert Kühner because I did not have enough knowledge of such old Fongers bicycles, I am (was) “Gazelle-man”.
Mr. Kühner has looked at the pictures and the description of the bike and he said the bike is most likely of the early 1920’s, Also mr. Jos Rietveld looked at the photo’s and thought the bike could possibly be of the early 1920’s.
Both man could not mach the framenumber with the look of the frame of your bicycle, if you only look at the number than this must be from around 1905, but your frame is not that old, frame of that age or shorter build and look different, so there is something strange with the number, maybe you missed one number because of rust (?) or something, I don’t know.
This is why mr. Herbert Kühner and mr. Jos Rietveld (Fongers-specialist) think your Fongers is most likely from the early 1920’s, under the bracket many Fongers have a “Barrelnumber”, this together with the frame(serial) number can give a better building-year maybe.
Mr. Kühner found it also strange you name the bike Fongers BB 204264, because this is nowere on the frame visible, it must be a Fongers BB 55 or BB 60, visible on the left side of the under-steering-lug and the framenumber is on the saddlelug and is probably 204264.
If he wants to be shore about the age, mr Jos Rietveld needs to have a photo of the bike’s frontvork, framenumber and (if there) barrelnumber (under trapas, crank)
Because your bike is build up from a bare frame you got, and build up with nice old Fongers parts (witch are probably newer and older than the frame itself) it is difficult to give the exact age, I will check the number in the Archive in Groningen. I don’t know if it is allowed to make pictures of the archive ?
I shall do my best,
Greetings,
Andre
Mr.Andre, How about 2419908 ,seven digit ,could you tell me how old is it .Its dames fongers,55 cm with vernikkel double crown fork. Thanks
kalo pakar2 dari luar ketemu begini nih, ayo gimana nih para sesepuh kita ikut nimbrung dong
hehehe…terjemahannya Mr. Bulap kaya bahasa Indo-malaysia……
To Sodik Bumen,
I think your Fongers was from 1950,s or newer made, according your description of yours it’s look like the ‘art deco’ style, like Simplex cote d’azzur, or Union sportfietsen.
May I right Andre?
Laexs, Andyt and others,
Yesterday I was at the Fongers Archive in Groningen, I looked (and found) the “roots” of my Fongers BB 60 frame(serial)number 27115.
It was painted in the Fongers factory in Groningen on April 14, 1908 and delivered to the new owner, mr. J. Heldring, adres; het Lange Voorhout in the city of ‘s Gravenhage (den Haag) on May 20, 1908.
I also wanted to look at your Fongers Laexs, but than I saw why mr. Herbert Kühner and mr. Jos Rietveld had difficulties with your Frame(serial)number, It has one number too much !
Fongers used three types of frame(serial)numbers during it existence. the numbering started at 1902 with the number 10001. 1904-1906=15251-20300. 1906-1907=20301-25350. 1907-1909=25351-29870. and so on untill ~1921, than they stopped this numbering with the frame(serial)number at about 95000. Also all Fongers bicycles made before ~ 1921 have frame(serial)numbers with 5 numbers.
Than Fonger started with a new kind of numbering in 1921, this numbering and the third numbering they used after that is totaly different with not only a (short) number but also a letter in frame(serial)numbers.
The second type of numbering from 1921-on always has one “-” in it between the numbers.
Your frame(serial)number 204264 has 6 numbers, no “-” and no letter so I could impossibly look for it in the Archive.
In fact the number 204264 is “impossible” on a Fongers….
On the website of Herbert Kühner it is clearly explained how they used to work at Fongers.
So I could do nothing for you, I am sorry.
I made a photo of page in one of the “Garantieboeken” where you can see the notes made of my 1908 Fongers BB 60.
I made also a few photo’s of the bike and put them on the Yahoo-group Holland,
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/oudefietsen/photos/browse/c973
I am not allowed to put more pictures on the Flickr-space this month because I reached the limit for this month they mailed to me…..
When I was in Groningen I have also made some pictures of the still existing Fongers Building of 1896 where all Fongers bicycles were made. It is now used by other company’s.
I put also some Foto’s made of foto’s from old Fongers bicycles on the photo-part of this site.
The pictures of my 1908 Fongers are “as Found”, I have to put in the original back-wheel and the (short) front fender.
Both I have with the bike.
Andre
ck…ck….ck
buat mas andree koopman yg bener seri fongers BB nya mr.alex adlh BB 60 no serinya 2042-64 (tolong dong diartikan buat andre koopman) 🙂
To Mr, Andree :
I have correction to frame number of my fongers BB 60. I told you before the frame number is 204264, but after I check again the number is 2042-64, there have ( – ) beside the number. Can u explained ?
Thanks
Hallo Laexs,
because of the 3 different periodes of framenumbering at Fongers, the “-” in the number is very important.
This “-” means your bicycle is from the second “generation” framenumbers. The first was from 1902 until ~1921, the second started in ~1921 until 1940, the third started in 1940 until the end in 1961, and even went further until 1970 when “old” Fongers was gone and taken over and called PFG (Phoenix-Fongers-Germaan)
As I told, the first periode from 1902-on is just numbering every new bicycle with the next number, very simple to understand.
The second numbering systeme, where your bicycle (laexs) is probably one of the first from, was different.
In this systeme Fongers made bicycle-series of 100 bicycles and gave every bicycle a number behind the “-“. The first two numbers of every serie of that year was the production-year.
Also your bicycle; 2042-64 would be the 64’st bicycle of serie 42 of the year 1920.
another example would be 3506-2; this would be the second bicycle of the 6 serie of the year 1935.
From 1940 on Fongers used the another (third) system.
From that year on there is a letter in front of the framenumber.
Every letter is a certain year.
Watch out: from 1966 on, the same letters come back again, but they are than behind the number !
1940 = Z
1941 = K
1942 – 1945 = F
1946 – 1947 = N
1948 = G
1949 E
1950 R
1951 S
1952 H
1953 W
1954 V
1955 Y
1956 T
1957 C
1958 D
1959 L
1960 P
1961 M
PFG:
1962 U
1963 B
1964 X
1965 A
1966 Z
1967 K
1968 H
1969 T
1970 A
Tell all Indonesians, so they can all find out how old their Fongers is !
note; (ex-)militairy bicycles from Fongers can have different numbering.
If you still have questions about the numbering, just ask and I will try to explain.
Mr. Herbert Kühner will in the future make also a translation of the whole Fongers-story in English on his website, in Dutch it is there allready.
best wishes to you all,
Andre
Thanks Mr. Andre ..your information is very useful to old bicycle enthusiast in Indonesia especially the fongers owners . I want ask to you… where the best type of fongers have been made ? type BB or other….why?
Mr. Andre I need your help, can u find me a fongers transfer mark? because I need that to restoration my fongers damesfiets.
Best regard
Alexs
Laexs,
The best Fongers is just a Fongers, all old Fongers were good bicycles, all types are good quality, only some (BB) were having more expensive parts, like brakes, pump, later on also lamp’s, saddle, biezen, sometimes 3 speed gear, etc.
The BB was the most expensive from the male-bicycles Fongers made. But if you have a cheaper type and put on more expensive parts (like the BB had) you have almost the same bike !
For a Fongers transfer mark you can try to ask at our Yahoo site of old bicycle lovers in Holland, someone had a few of them spare a while ago, maybe he still has them ?
Om Marktplaats there is also an advertisement with Fongers transfer’s, but I think they are expensive at Marktplaats, because even in Holland they are rare. If you have one, it is better to reproduce it on special paper by yourself or someone who knows how to make them !
I think it is cheapest to buy one in Indonesia, make some repro’s with special paper on a copy-machine, use a few of those on your bicycles, and than sell some repro’s to “get your money back”.
If the repro’s are made well you don’t see the difference with the original transfer’s !
Andre
Ping balik: Fietsen Bellanda « WIRA-WIRI NAEK SEPEDA
cing lex… kemaren gue liat beberapa transfer merk yang dijual kang Uli & kang Dede (PSB) coba aja…
atau contact meneer Antoine Berghs di belande sono 😀
Beste Meneer. Koopmans,
U hebt z’on fantistische fiets van de hemel kan ik me niet fantaseren als ik hem zou kunnen rijden.
Ik noem uw fiets ” De hemels fiets”
Bedank.
Dag,
Danang Hardianto
Ik ben de lied van SOC (semarang Onthel Community)
een nieuwe fietsorganitatie te Semarang
Dank u zeer meneer Hardianto !
my dreaming pokoknya i cant’ talk any more
Just keep on breathing, Heri, one day it will also be your lucky day !!
Just keep on breathing, Heri, one day it will also be your lucky day !!
buat om alex
sy kebetulan punya transfer mark..old fongers,gazelle,simplex, untuk fongers ada 2 jenis.. mudah2an kt bisa ketemu di jogja…
tolong terjemahin tu tentang nomor seri fonger
mr.widex ding dong,
Saya memerlukan satu transfer merek Fongers lama, dimanakah saya bisa mendapatkan atau membelinya? silakan kontak saya di:
andrian@peter.petra.ac.id.
Atau kalau perlu saya akan temui sampeyan. Suwun
tolong gua neeh cara dapetin sepeda kuno yang keren gimana
dong,
pengalaman temen2 sih :
Ada Uang,
siapin uang secukupnya, kalo kata orang sih ada uang ada barang, makin bermutu sebuah barang makin tinggi harganya
Ada Waktu,
siapin waktu untuk hunting kalo perlu sampe ke pelosok desa/kota, atau sempetin waktu utk silaturahmi kepada para teman2 ontelis utk menjaring info
Ada Ilmu,
untuk ngedapetin barang yg bermutu (orisinal,lengkap dll)
harus didukung dgn pengetahuan yg cukup bs melalui literatur dr buku, internet, bertanya2 dg para pakar
Ada Jodoh,
kalo tiga syarat diatas udah dipenuhi, tp belum dapet sepeda sesuai dgn keinginan itu namanya belum jodoh…nah ini yg sulit ditebak…kadang ada barang yg bagus sudah lama diincer tp ngga dilepas – lepas juga sama yg punya, atau lg ngga ada duit ujug-ujug ada yg nawarin barang bagus…. 😦
kalo sy sih terus terang aja :
…sapedah aing kumaha aing…
…pede aja lagi… 😉
ngambek di hapus comment nye…he..he
salam buat teman2 ontel se Indonesial,
Komentar mengenai sepeda Belanda selalu yang diangkat sepeda Gazelle dan Fongers. Saran saya coba diangkat merek sepeda yang lain agar temen2 yang punya merek sepeda lain dapat memahami dgn benar dan terperinci. Sepeda yang tidak kalah tuanya coba dibahas/diangkat dalam forum waroeng ontel ini. Seperti merek: BURGER (yg merupakan sepeda tertua di negeri Belanda), VALUAS, BATAVUS, PHONEX, LOCOMOTF, dll.
salam buat teman2 ontel se Indonesial,
Komentar mengenai sepeda Belanda selalu yang diangkat sepeda Gazelle, Simplex dan Fongers. Saran saya coba diangkat merek sepeda yang lain agar temen2 yang punya merek sepeda lain dapat memahami dgn benar dan terperinci. Sepeda yang tidak kalah tuanya coba dibahas/diangkat dalam forum waroeng ontel ini. Seperti merek: BURGER (yg merupakan sepeda tertua di negeri Belanda), VALUAS, BATAVUS, PHONEX, LOCOMOTF, dll.
salam kenal boeat Tri,
Kalau boleh tahu sepeda merek apa ya yang Tri cari? kita bisa bantu. Hub: 081370120130/061-6632362. email: sulaiman.razali@yahoo.com
aduh kok belanda semua sih mas blur pake made inggris napa kuno duitnya poundstreling lagii punyaku merk cerco stang jelas tertulis made in inggris
untuk SEKO, saya juga baru dapet, tertulis, koller and sewoster, quelle, bielfeld, kata sumber saya yang puluhan tahun disana, adalah kota di jerman, tapi saya pernah baca kata salah satu temen kta adalah buatan belgia, keliatanya saya lebih yakin kalo seko buatan jerman,
dear pak Andre, would you please to share info about KAREL 1 AND ITS SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION ?
thanks
tolong bantu identifikasi sepeda saya..http://sepedaonthelpribumi050.wordpress.com/
looks my gazelle and other.please give your comment.thankshttp://sepedaonthelpribumi050.wordpress.com/
Kepada selurus ontelis salam kenal dari saya,entis ontelis Banten ( COBA ), kepingin juga sih punya Gazele kaya Andre koopmans, tp cuman kepengen syukurin aja lah walaupun hanya himber sama Rely yang penting ontels
di tempat saya ada sepeda merkny President,itu sepeda asal mana ? mudah – mudahan ada yang bisa kasih informasi
Om…kok komunitas ontheller lebih konsen info yang divensip ya…kurang bloko suto…..ha 4x jadi jaringan kurang mengakar dan….gimana gt
@ Gandhen
maksude opo to mas..mas ini komunitas ontheller bukan komunitas tanaman jadi ya ga mengakar dan..gimana gt ha 4x
kalau kurang mengakar bisa di siram mas, semoga tambah subur heheh sory becanda
mak nyos
Mr. Andre, congratulations to your old-Fongers. From the information I know, BB-series ever less distasteful. In the year 1908, the BB is already back into best bike?
Your Gazelle-1912, is specifically requested in size? I only know the size of 55, 60, or 65).
Menurut pengalaman saya, Fongers 60 rasanya lebih tinggi daripada Humber 24. Bahkan Fongers 60 juga hanya terpaut sedikit sekali dengan Gazelle 65 sehingga saya masih berani mengendarai. Benarkah? Mohon opini teman-teman.
@wongeres
saya juga merasa seperti itu pak wongeres, mengendarai Fongers 60 sepertinya memang lebih tinggi dibandingkan Humber 24…saya pikir itu hanya saya sendiri yg ngerasa yach..he..he..nah kalo Gazelle 65 saya belum pernah coba pak nur, nanti kalo di Jogja saya dipinjemin yach…nuwun
-bejo-
Mas Bejo, lalu bagaimana dengan Simplex? Padahal konon sepeda England ukuran 26 biasanya lebih tinggi dibanding sepeda Holland 65. Dilihat dari forknya sudah kelihatan.
Dear Her Andre,
I have gazelle with frame number 347848, in Indonesia is called as Gazelle 3rd series, which one is the original GEAR for this cycle, Gear with gazelle letter or the gazelle symbol ?
thanks a lots for kind help.
Her Andre,
I have gazelle with frame number 347848, in Indonesia is called as Gazelle 3rd series, which one is the original GEAR for this cycle, Gear with gazelle letter or the gazelle symbol ?
thanks a lots for kind help.
Dear Mr. Andre
i have an old fongers with front number under steer “H60”
and frame number “3944-55”
may i know how old my fongs..?? and some story about its..
if u dont mind.
thanks.
Golek pit onthel kuno neng negoro londo. Jarene regane murah, telung ndino kerjo biso nggo tuku pit onthel kuno.
Nek dietung-etung, tiket montor mabur Jakarta – Amsterdam PP wis piro? Durung ongkos nginep neng hotel, biaya urip neng kono. Wah…. lha podo wae nyelengi seket tahun kanggoku ijih tangeh lamun biso oleh pit murah neng Nederland.
Wis tak trimak-trimakke, kanggoku onthel asal ngglinding wis oke.
ma2n
To Wongeres; in 1908 the Fongers BB60 was the most expensive “made in Holland”-bicycle you could buy.
The 1912 Gazelle on the picture has a 66 cm frame, this was not special in that time. It was the biggest standart-frame you could order.
To Yoto; Your gazelle with frame number 347848 is build in 1926 and should have the gear with “GAZELLE” in letters.
Gazelle used these gear from ~1915 until ~1929.
look;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oudefietsen/photos/album/972832812/pic/842256820/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc
To ienoenk; Your Fongers with frame number “3944-55″ is from the second framenumberseries. on these the first two numbers are the buildingyear, the second two numbers are the serie of bicycles of that year, and the number behind the “-” is the number of the bicycle in the serie.
So; you Fongers is build in 1939, and it was the 55’th bicycle of the 44’th serie of that year.
A Fongers H 60 was not the most expensive Fongers you could buy, but Fongers bicycles were never cheap !
I didn’t look at this part of the site for a long time, i am sorry for the late responce…
Greetings,
Andre
Dear Mr Koopmans,
You don’t have to be sorry about being late in answering our numerous questions. It is we, Indonesian old-bike freaks, who are supposed to be sorry for continuously bothering you with miscellaneous questions about old bikes. All of your answers and information have been very helpful and satisfying our curiosity. Nevertheless, we still would like you not to be fed up with our never-ending questions.
The following is the translation of my posting above prior to yours commenting about the price of an old bike in the Netherland :
———–
It is said that searching for old-fashioned bicycles in the Netherland does not cost us a lot of money. It is only a three-day-work pay can buy an old bicycle.
After comprehensive calculation, how much does the ticket from Jakarta to Amsterdam vice-versa cost? That does not include the hotel charge and cost of living there. Well …, even if I saved my money for fifty years, it would not be possible for me to go to the Netherland just to buy an old bicycle.
Therefore, I have to be satisfied with any old bicycle which is enjoyable to ride on.
———–
I still think that even if I bought an old bike in the Netherland and had it sent to Indonesia by ship or by any means of transportation, I still could not afford it.
Well, it has been a pleasure to have all of you information.
Best regard,
ma2n (Koba)
Dear Mr. ma2n,
It is a pitty I don’t have much time, otherwise I could do more in oldtimer bicycles, because I think it is exiting because we can still find beautiful old bicycles that are “waiting” for us in old sheds and on attic’s and other places, and in Holland it is a hobby that does not cost a lot of money.
searching old-fashioned bicycles in the Netherland does not cost a lot of money if you live and work here in Holland.
You say it is only a three-day-work to can pay an old bicycle, in fact it is just only three hours work.
I am just an ordinairy person in Holland, but if I would I could save money for a ticket to Indonesia.
Though it is also for me a lot of money, but could be possible to go there within a year or so, this is because our Euro-money is worth a lot.
In Indonesia a normal man can live a good live, but buying a ticket for a flight to the other side of the world is just because of the value of the Indonesian money almost impossible, I know.
Also shipping a bicycle to Indonesia from here is costing so much, you could for less money buy a nice oldtimer in Indonesia self…I am afrait you have to live with that.
The only way to do this “cheap” is to sail to Holland in a sailing-boat, fill it with bicycles and sail back….haha, I think it is a bit of a stupid idea, haha.
But mailing information is for free, it just costs a bit of electricity, haha, so lets just keep things like they are and get all the good out of it !
By the way, your English is very good !
Greetings and all the best,
Andre
Dear Mr Koopmans,
Talking about fulfilling one’s need and and being satisfied with it, there is no perfect satisfaction in the world that any living human being can get. When once his/her need is fulfilled, other and more needs appear. Therefore, I agree with you that it is better to make the best out of what we have or what we can afford rather than to wish something that we can never reach it. In our daily life there are wishes which are mostly not fulfilled than they are.
It seems to me that most of your comments are based on questions written in English and on photos that you see in this web. I also believe that some postings in English of my friends here are hard for you to interpret. That is why I would like offer you to translate any article in this web from Indonesian into English for you. So please do not hesitate to ask me to do so and I will be glad to be at your service, just like you are to answer my friends’ many many questions.
Since Indonesia used to be Dutch colony long time ago, I wonder that only few Indonesians (especially the older generation) speak Dutch. If I am not mistaken, the same thing prevails in South Africa, also former Dutch colony. If you happen to be well informed about this and if you do not mind, would you please tell me?
Another thing about a Dutch colony also makes me wonder. Suriname was also a Dutch colony and its population consists of several peoples hailing from across the continents. One of the peoples is Javanese whose forefathers came from Java Island a hundred years ago. Strangely, nowadays they speak both fluent Dutch and fluent Javanese even though the elder generation are worried about the young ones’ forgetting about Javanese ethnic language. Even Javanese descendants whose forefathers were moved to other islands in Indonesia by the Dutch government about a century ago do not speak Javanese ethnic language. Unfortunately, I have no information about whether there is any old-bicycle-lover community in Suriname.
In the meantime, I feel flattered for your compliment about my English. I like reading books, magazines and articles in English; however, I have never gone to any country outside Indonesia. I just believe that practice makes perfect.
Last but not least, it is agreat pleasure to be able to communicate with you Mr Koopmans.
Best regard,
ma2n (Koba)
P.S : Koba stands for Batavia Old-Bicycle Community.
Dear mr. Koopmans,
Thanks for the answer, mr. Koopmans!! Thanks once again, we do appreciate anything you have done to us , explaining, answering questions and do not worry we still are preparing to shot you with another thousands never ending questions. i do believe that all bicycle communities will welcome you to any destination city in Indonesia anytime you go. You are going to have a very warm welcome,by the way, i had ever transit in schippol on the way to Birmingham, but bicycle not yet in my head, that was really bad time for me.
dear mr. Koopmans, Finally I got Old Gazelle with frame number 304383, with rubber brake system,24 inch, heren and gazelle lettergear( it is really my fave part ever), any info I can get .
mr. Koopmans, you will be more than Holland ambassador for Indonesia onthel communities..he..he..
You are very famaous really…
visit Indonesia someday mr. Koopmans..
warm regards
yoto.
untuk r11c,
Saya juga punya SEKO, koller sewoster, cewe,22, item, waktu batang2 dibersihkan muncul lis2nya. Sepeda ini buatan Jerman, kotanya BIELFELD, KALO CLUB SEPAKBOLANYA ARMINIA BIELFELD, EMBLEM DARI ALUMUNIUM DAN DIBATANGNYA ADA TULISAN seko DAN BATANG SADEL KEBAWAH ADA LOGONYA, KERONCONG, REM KARET, SAYA SUDAH COBA CARI2 INFO TENTANG SEPEDA INI TAPI GELAPPP, MUNGKIN PAK SULAEMAN MEDAN BERKENAN MEMBERIKAN SEDIKIT PTUAH, KARNA ADA TEMEN BILANG BELIAU AHLI PER-JERMAN-AN.
PAK SULAEMAN MONGGO,
Hahaha ! , Mr. Yoto, If I may believe you, I am very famous in Indonesia, haha, that is hard to believe for me just because I try to help some people with some questions they have about their old “made in Holland” bicycles !
You said you have an old Gazelle with frame number 304383, that would be build in 1928.
That is an old one, Gazelles from that age you do not find a lot any more in Holland ! Take good care of it, but I know you do.
Mr. Ma2n, your English is better than mine, most Indonesian people can write a little bit english, just enough for me to understand them (at least I think…)
But your are realy a tallent in English if you did learn it just by yourself.
I write on later here about your writing, I have to go now, “business”.
Greetings,
Andre
ampyuuuuun! emang GAZELLE kren abiiis!
Mr. Ma2n, here I am back again,
Indonesia and Suriname were colonies of Holland, South Africa was used by the V.O.C. in the 1700’s as a trade-post for its ships that saild all over the world to China, Japan, Indonesia, etc.
So South africa was not realy a colonie of Holland, and old bicycles from Holland you will not find there because the Dutch were gone there in the beginning of the 1800’s and bicycles were not invented by than, haha !
Suriname does not have a lot of inhabitants.
The inhabitants of Suriname came from a lot of other parts of the world, Indonesians, Africans, South American indians and the Dutch, this lack of common language and history is the reason that the Dutch language is still spoken on schools and by a lot of people in Suriname.
In Suriname people do not collect old bicycles as far as I know, they do not care, I think this is also because they have not an ancient common history that gives them a proud “feeling” of “saving the history and good old things of their parents and grand-parents”.
The inhabitants of Indonesia have always lived in indonesia, Indonesia has a lot of inhabitants, they had and have their own languages and a common history that kept and keeps them together as one “proud nation”.
That is why I think indonesians care about history of their parents grand-parents and even older generations.
That is also why they kept their own language and did not take over the Dutch language, they just wanted to forget it when they threw the Dutch out of their country. (I do not blaim them, haha !)
If you want to translate my writing in Indonesian language in order to help your bicycle-friends in Indonesia it is O.K. to me.
I do not speak your language so I can not do that, I only speak Dutch, English, German, Fries and a little bit French…
If you have questions you may also mail me on akoopmans@omrin.nl
Other Indonesian old-bicycle-people do so too, they sometimes mail me pictures of bicycles and ask me questions about it, no probleme.
As soon as I have time I will try to answer the questions.
It is a pitty Indonesia is so far away, otherwise I would love to come and see if there are realy old Dutch bicycles left over, because I have still not seen Dutch bicycles from before ~1915 in your country…
Greetings from a sunny Holland,
Andre
Greetings,
Andre
You are mr. Koopmans! Finally i get a couple of Gazelle six digits frame number, with the first number is 3XXXXX, so now i have been waiting their son or daughter( it does not matter to me as long as still GAZELLE..he..he..). Sure mr. Koopmans, I have 3 gazelles at my home, I do love them very much and I shall take care my bike for sure.
It should be very hard to get an old Gazelle with 5 digits frame number here in Indonesia,but we shall never give up, always look forward to having much..much older than what we have already owned today.
Have a nice sunny day( regard to super sister metamorfosis and the MO Nancy)
warm regards
yoto
Welcome to the” WORLD OF GAZELLE”
Haha, you are very enthosiastic Mr. Yoto, good luck in finding old Gazelle’s, just keep your eyes and ears open and some day you will find something special !
Greetings,
Andre
dear mr. andre would you like to tell me the differents between letter ‘D.R.P’ (deutsche reight patent) and D.P. on torpedo vrijwielremnaaf(coaster brake hub) thank’s
D.R.P.= Deutsches Reichs Patent
D.P.= Deutsches Patent
Both are patents for things that were made in Germany.
The only difference is that the word “Reich”(Reichs) was used in the periode that Germany was a “Reich”, that was in the periode before the war when Mr. Hitler was the boss in Germany, he was the inventer of “Das Dritte Reich” and things that were patented in that periode had the “R” of the German word “Reich” in it, D.R.P.
After Mr. Hitler was gone, Germany was just a country again, and the word “Reich” disappeared.
So after the war, in 1945, the “R” was gone and it was just D.P. again.
Andre
hahahahaha..mas yoto hunting terus!
Dear mr. Koopmans,
Sure, already opened my eyes widely,but only get dust in there..never ending Gazelle story.
Thanks for sharing mr. Koopmans!
regards
yoto
Pak Godam, Gazelle kesedot kesana semua yaa?
Kemana gak pernah muncul ?
gazelle ok banget. mo dongg?
Hello,
I am an American who just purchased an old Locomotief bicycle made by Gazelle. I am trying to determine how old it is. The serial# on the frame is: GA024550. The bike is green.
I would appreciate any information.
Thanks
Anybody will help our new friend? 50ies-60ties product?
Dear MR Andree
i found that gazelle still made Tour populair dames & heren with size from 51-67 (correct me if im wrong), if i want to buy it, tour populair dames and heren size 57, how to buy it, because im very surprised that gazelle still made it till now and the price is almost affordable (Euro 599).
how to bring it to indonesia, can you help me to find the dealer that i can buy from it.
thx mr andree
buat temen-temen pecinta gazelle, ternyata gazelle masih memproduksi gazelle onthel seri dames (cewek) danheren (cowok) seri tour populair dengan ukuran frame mulai dari 51 sd 67 (sesuai ukuran tubuh dewasa), harganya 599 euro(biasa) sedangkan yg pakai persenelling 3 kecepatan adalah 750 euro.
meskipun mungkin berbeda dari seri lawas, saya yakin kualitasnya sama. Oleh karena itu bagaimana jika kita sama-sama gabung buat beli sepeda ini. websitenya http://www.gazelle.nl, seri lain ada. pengiriman biasanya menggunakan jasa kurir indotrans yg biasa bawa barang pelajar dna mahasiswa indoensia di belanda dan waktu pengiriman 3 bulanan. untuk langhsung ke pabriknya dibutuhkan 101 sepeda (dikirim via kontainer). ayo siapa mau ikut?
teman-teman sekalian mohon massukan saya bingung dengan sepeda ini gazelle asli atau bukan mohon massukkannya.makasih
http://kedaiontel.blogspot.com/
Dear Mr. Merwan
Locomotief GA024550 is made in 1980.
Locomotief is taken over by Gazelle in 1968, between 1974 and 1982 the first number of the framenumber (that always started with a “G”) was the last number of the building-year.
More info about that bicycle I can not give, I do not know how it looks like…
Dear Mr. Zulchaidir
Gazelle still makes some of their classic models, the type without drumbrakes or 3-speed is even cheaper.Other Bicycle-manufactorers that make the old type bicycles are Batavus and Azor.
I do not know how these bicycles could be bought in other countries, you could send the factory an E-mail and ask for it.
contact-websides for Gazelle is ; http://www.gazelle.nl/nl/service/stel-uw-vraag.html
question = vraag.
Batavus old Dutch and Favoriet;
http://www.batavus.nl/collectie/Stadsfietsen.aspx
Azor ;
http://www.azor.nl/index.php?page=fiets&laat_zien=1
Azor also makes crossframe bicycles
Mr Koopmans, I have fongers series D.55 H 5380, when the pabrikan launching this bicycle?, My father have a story and history about this bicycle
salam kenal….
sepedanya mantep mantep pisan om….
Dear Mr.Koopmans, i’m from PSB Bandoeng..
I just bought a FOnger BB 55 with 2774-9 codes written on it’s frame.. would you help me find the production year of my Fongers ?
thank you before Mr.Koopmans
wow this is very bueutifull and clasick, thanks
1927 Aa Saleut!
gazelle 288591 keluaran tahun berapa ya…
woooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww
Dear mr. Koopmans
Wah, yo apik tenan yo pit e Mr. Koopmans.
It really a beautiful bike.
Dear, Mr. Koopmans, may I have a questions.
I have a Herren Gazelle bike with serial no. GH506299, and in the frame its written Gazelle Impala with dreigang (3 gears by Sachs) and tromol/ drum brake.
I have searched in website the year production was 1935. But I am just wondering to know is it true that year 1935 gazelle already made a tromol/ drum brake and again with 3 gears.
And again the front logo with silver background.
I guess this bike may be from year sixties but maybe the frame is used from the old one…?
Thank you for the information.
Matur nuwun sanget.
Indrawanto
Assalammu’alaikum wr.wb.
Sy wawan dr sleman, mohon di share tentang sepeda onthel kuno/antiq. merk-merk beserta harga dan showroomnya di kota jogja. Makasih……..!!!!!!
Mohon dibantu karena sy awam tentang onthel antik.
sekali lagi makasih………!!!!!!
adooh si gazelle antik lagi niieeh
man gimana kalau di atas stir di gantung kepala gazelle ama tanduknya yg asli n di sayap belakang di gantungin ekornya yg beneran pasti masih kurang mantap he kwkwkwkwkkww
yalah man lebih baik jalan kaki tu lebih murah
tu gazelle mahal banget sih boro2 beli gazelle belinasi pecel aja di tanyain npwp
n di tanyain uang pemasukan tp nggak di tanyain uang yg keluar pusing nieeh
gmn cara jalan keluarnya saudara2 kita di indonesia tolong deh kasih demo tu pemerintah
salam teko wong kampoeng
berilah kami kebebasan n batulah kami tuk maju
Merdeka
mantaabbb….. hhhhh
I should have found these conversations long ago. Very cool. Thanks Andre, thanks All.
Love
Aggmyg
nowhere to run…….
mas sulaiman mohon informasi tentang philip serinya B1141,keluaran tahun brpa tu makasih