From : Andre Koopmans
To : oudefietsen@yahoogroups.com
Date : Jun 28, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject : [oudefietsen] Holland-Indonesia
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Hallo Indonesian members and lovers of Dutch bicycles,
It does not matter the English of some Indonesian bike-enthosiasts is not so good, we (at least I) can understand it perfectly ! I find it funny that on the other side of the world there are so many people that love “our” bicycles from Holland too ! There is only one club for old bicycles in Holland (de oude fiets) (www.oudefiets.nl) and we have a few hundred members, that is all!
In Indonesia there are much more friends of our old bikes than in Holland.
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I visited several indonesian old-bicycle-sites and although I do not understand the indonesian language, I saw lots of pictures of your bicycles, and you have an enormous lot of old dutch bikes !
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A few things surpriced me; there are a lot of old dutch bikes in indonesian with steel chaincases (oliebad-kettingkast in dutch). In Holland old bikes have most of the time a “lakdoek-kettingkast”, also the soft textile (or leather) material with a steel frame inside.
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In Holland a large number of male-pre-war-bicycles (and a bit newer) have high frame-sizes, 66cm, 72cm, 75 cm and even bigger, on Indonesian foto’s I saw only small-size frames, probably because Indonesian people are smaller than us tall Dutchies.
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Which Duch bicycle-spareparts are indonesians looking for, in Holland there is still a lot but things like old type bearing-material is getting harder to get, especially for old Transportfietsen and the big old type crank-bearings in good shape are hard to get.
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Another thing that surprised me is the beautiful chrome/nikkel on the old indonesian “Holland-bikes”, don’t they rust in indonesia ?! Or do you always put on new chrome when you retorate a bike ? In Holland most old bicycles we find have a lot of rust, the chrome/nikkel is mostly rotten of in bad shape.
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Is an old Fongers / Gazelle / Burgers / Simplex etc. in resonable good shape expensive in Indonesia ? How long does a normal indonesian man has to work to get the money for such a bicycle ? In Holland you buy a reasonably good oldtimer for about 100 euro, that is about two days working for a average Dutch worker. 1 EUR = 12225,577 IDR.
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A nice website to look at for indonesian lovers of bicycles made in Holland is probably http://www.marktplaats.nl ,click on the left side on “fietsen en accesoires” and than scroll down and click on “oldtimers”. There is a lot of old rubbish for sale, but also nice old Dutch bicycles. I sometimes buy an old bike from this site, but this will be very difficult for you becaus of the distance…. But nice to look at !
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If you have questions about old Dutch bicycles, just ask on this forum in your best English/Dutch/German, maybe with a foto, and we can try to give an answer !
Greetings from Holland,
Kind regards,
Andre
www.sepeda.wordpress.com 
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Hallo temen2 Indonesia yang menyukai sepeda Belanda.
Ga masalah Bahasa Inggris tidak bagus-bagus banget, yang penting kita saling mengerti. Sangatlah menarik, ternyata di belahan benua yang lain banyak orang yang menyukai sepeda Belanda. Hanya ada 1 klub sepeda tua Belanda yaitu : de oude fiets / http://www.oudefiets.nl dengan anggota beberapa ratus saja. Tapi di Indonesia ada banyak klub dan ratusan anggota tiap klub sepeda tua Belanda.
Ayo teman2, bantu terjemahin tiap paragraf di atas, agar ilmu dan wawasan ontel kita makin bertambah
Salam Ontel
Bahtiar
In Holland a large number of male-pre-war-bicycles (and a bit newer) have high frame-sizes, 66cm, 72cm, 75 cm and even bigger, on Indonesian foto’s I saw only small-size frames, probably because Indonesian people are smaller than us tall Dutchies.
ini ngeledek atau apa ya ?…wah udah mulai neh…
He he yg kecil2 itu cantik menarik mas. Di Bali banyak turis nggandeng dames maupun heren mungil.Kesimpulan merekapun suka yg mungil.
Koment No.2 Gue banget !! bwahahahah….nah mana si buaya kerontjongan yang biasa ngomong ginian…malah ngintip doang…ayo bantuain kita2 dong….biar pada mudheng…
Sabar Mas WC
Jangan dimasukin ati …
Setiap surat kan ada naik-turunnya
agar manarik 🙂
esmosi mas…esmosi…
mas bah kalau ada manarik mesti ada manurungnya juga dong biar balance 😀
A few things surpriced me; there are a lot of old dutch bikes in indonesian with steel chaincases (oliebad-kettingkast in dutch). In Holland old bikes have most of the time a “lakdoek-kettingkast”, also the soft textile (or leather) material with a steel frame inside.
dia heran,banyak sepeda tua belanda di Indonesia yg pake katengkas (tutup rante) dr logam. Di Holand sepeda tua umumnya tutup rante nya dari kerangka besi yang dilapisi oleh bahan kain atau kulit…
yah kalo liat di foto2 kita sih kebanyakan sepeda tua yg ada emang ngga pake katengkas kulit, wong nyarinya aja susah (kalo yg asli) kalo ada juga sayang dipake buat jalan2…takut rusak atau ditawar he he he
Betuk juga katanya Andre Koopmans orang benua lain.yang barang begituan dari negeri sono. nampak nya si bule tertarik dengan adanya kumunitas sepeda tua (old bicycles) di Indonesia.sampai 2 yang ada di otaknya mungkin sama seperti kita 2 disini.ok temen 2 tolong dong di arti in lagi yang banyak biar pada pintar. tul kan mas Baht,mas WC. Kank Tt.salam dulu mas.
Is an old Fongers / Gazelle / Burgers / Simplex etc. in resonable good shape expensive in Indonesia ? How long does a normal indonesian man has to work to get the money for such a bicycle ? In Holland you buy a reasonably good oldtimer for about 100 euro, that is about two days working for a average Dutch worker. 1 EUR = 12225,577 IDR.
terjemahan bebasnya :
Sepeda tua merk Fongers/Gazelle/Burgers/Simplex dll dg kondisi baik mahal ya di Indonesia ?
Berapa lama orang Indonesia harus bekerja buat beli sepeda kayak gitu ?
Di Holland harganya sekitar 100 Euro, kira2 2 hari kerja utk ukuran rata2 pekerja di sana.
1 EUR = Rp.12.225,577
100 EUR X Rp.12.225 = Rp.1.225.500 (krg lebih)….
sebulan gaji dah…he he he
dengan catetan Gaji blom dipotong kasbon warteg, pulsa 25ribu, bayar listrik,iuran RT….
kacian deh lo…
Another thing that surprised me is the beautiful chrome/nikkel on the old indonesian “Holland-bikes”, don’t they rust in indonesia ?! Or do you always put on new chrome when you retorate a bike ? In Holland most old bicycles we find have a lot of rust, the chrome/nikkel is mostly rotten of in bad shape.
Lainya yg bikin saya terkejut adalah crom / pernekel di sepeda tua kita kok masih bagus2, emangnya sepeda belanda ga pada karatan ye di Indonesia…Atau kowe orang selalu mengkrom / pernekel lagi saat restorasi sepeda. dibelanda biasanya kalo sepeda tua itu identik dengan karat di seluruh bagian.
Belum tau kalo di Indonesia tukang sulap semua….ha..ha
Hiks..setuju ama coment no.10 bwahahahaha…
ane ikut ente aje de cing………..pokonye ho oh dah……….dari pade migran….
2 hari disono dapet 100 Euro 🙄
gue daptar deh jadi tki disana, biar pulang2 borong ontel 😀
murah banget ye dinegrinye…..mendingan pada kesono nyok..bwahahah..
koment no,10 memang betul disini banyak tukang sulap 😀 😀 ..coba aja perhatikan beberapa pedagang yg pake sepeda kalau ketemu anak ontel pasti disulap…bisa ilang sepedanya atau bisa jadi sepeda MTB…owh kalau itu bukan sulap ye…dibeli kali ye hehehhe pake maksa dikit hehehe… 😛
Bukan sulap bukan sihir, jadi deh
hehehe, jadi ketawa baca komen…
menurut informasi, emang sih kalo di belanda gaji gede2, penganguran aja dapet tunjangan, dari tunjangan aja dia bisa jalan2 keliling eropa bahkan pulang kampung ke indonesia dan jadi raja minyak(bagi2 uang + oleh2).
“Maaf” untuk penganguran disana aja kalo mau menyalurkan hasrat biologis dibayarin ama pemerintahnya.
makanya ada istilahnya lebih baik waktu jaman belanda dari pada jaman sekarang.
untuk kondisi sepeda tua di belanda nggak semuanya orisinil tetap banyak menggunakan onderdil brand new, yang tetap asli hanya “made ini belandanya”
Harga ontel memang kurang lebih segitu tapi jangan lupa onkos kirim ke indonesianya berapa + biaya sogok sana-sogok sini, akhirnya sama aja jatuhnya.
He he resminya kan barang bekas nggak boleh masuk to?
ikut nimbrung ya bang……..coment no 6 maksudnya susah nyari onderdil gitu ya…..heheheh..sama di sini juga susah ko..apa lagi yg ori..klo ada harganya selangit…..tp g di sono ame di sini ya….hunting.jalan terusssssssssss…
ude langka, belum tentu srinilan, mahal pula….
mangkenye aye bikin sendiri, mang!
mas andyt, kalo bikinan berhasil sih enak bener, kepuasan batin yang nggak ade tandingannye, ibarat dokter berhasil nyembuhin pasien.
Tapi ngomong2 mas andyt ikut2an paham joshua sih
” masa simplex makan simplex”
hehehe….sukses yah mas…
iya juga sih, tapi kalau mulai dari nol..artinya kerangkanya juga dibuat sendiri, saya kesulitan sock dan sudut ukurannya.
Lagian Simplex yang saya ‘bantai’ adalah yang sudah ancur dari sononya (ada las-lasan di frame bawah) terus kondisi cat juga udah cat ulang dan amburadul, makanya dapat murah.
wakakak…ganti euy…..mas kurang terang photonya..
mas andyt…kapan nih konstruksinya di open source……?????(bagi- bagi)….klo boleh.
Hello,
I am very curieus what your comments are ?
I try to read your language, is it true that you have to work for 2 months (hari) to get Rp.1.225.500 (100 EUR X Rp.12.225 ).
Rp.1.225.500 sounds to a lot of money for me, but I don’t know what living in Indonesia is kosting.
In Holland a normal house is kosting about 300.000,- euro, that must be about 3.667.500.000 Rp.
You see, everything is in proportion, I have to work 50 hours a week to live in a reasonable small house in a small village.
A vew of my bikes I bought from a “old-iron man”, often people in Holland just throw old bicycles away because they are old or a little bit damaged.
My 1929 cross-frame Gazelle I bought for only 3 euro, but it was in a very bad shape, It was a lot of work to get it O.K. again.
Maybe we can exchange some small bicycle parts with eatch other without using money (small package send by post).
If I know witch Dutch bicycle-parts are hard to get in Indonesia I could look around in Holland, and you could maybe do the same in Indonesia for Dutch enthosiasts !?
For instance I am still looking for the very old (pre 1924)Copper or Tin-plate Gazelle frame-plate (balhoofd plaatje) with the text “Arentsen & Kölling” GAZELLE, and on top the head of the animal (so not the later type with the whole animal springing)
I am Especially looking for the one made of TIN . (~1906)
Also old stock Gazelle Rubber-bloks for pedal’s with the name “GAZELLE” on it are hard to get here.
And I am always looking for very old dutch bikes, are there Dutch bikes of 1910 or older in Indonesia ?
Can somebody make a short translation for me of the comments, I am very curieus how live is for a old-bicycle friend in Indonesia !
Greetings,
Andre
And I am always looking for very old dutch bikes, are there Dutch bikes of 1910 or older in Indonesia ?
Mr Andre, if you read the banner of our web :
STOP JUAL SEPEDA KUNO KE LUAR NEGERI
it’s mean that we try to keep the old bicycle still exist in our country, so we are here trying to save our heritage even that was made in Holland.
“My 1929 cross-frame Gazelle I bought for only 3 euro….”
wah…..
mau dah…4 euro jg gpp…..
For some people in Indonesia to get 100 euro must working for 1 month……Its true. the different working at Holland and Indonesia is The company pay monthly without considering office hours on a month.
If you looking for some part of gazelle especially Copper or Tin-plate, I thinks some our friend is have, but I don’t know what they want to sell or exchange it….
Wong-cilik, I am not trying to buy a bike from Indonesia !
I look for them in Holland, but I am just curieus if there are such old Gazelles known in your country.
fiiuuh…thanks God…i’m sorry i’ve think bad bout you.
Mr Andre,of course there’s alot of old Gazelle and others brand (Simplex,Fongers, Hercules,Humber,Stockvis,Hercules,Raleigh,etc) still running in Indonesia, but some of our friends prefered to keep their old bike than riding them, one of the reasons is they worry if the bike will find a trouble and it’s hard for us to looking for some spare parts.
Soon i will give to you a picture of old bike in Indonesia.
Hi there Mr. Koopmans,
Thank you for your attention to our old-bicycle community,
I hope you can also share the detail picture of your collections in this blog and what kind of colletible bike in your country, perhaps we can learn more from you …
wong cilik is right, if we talking about old-bicycle in Indonesia, Simplex, Gazelle and Fongers would be named first, because they are the most popular old bicycle in Indonesia which was brought by the foreigner when the war happened…
regards
Hai Andre,
A lot of thanks for the attachment photo of Fongers ‘Double-Dekker’. I never seen it before. Beautifull HZ Fonger’s vintage. I was very impressed!! Very tall for Indonesian size! The average tall of Indonesian is about 160 to 170, so that’s why our bicycles not entirely tall.
I ever had a 650’s HZ Fongers before I change Simplex Luxe in 2004 ago. If you know, 650mm tall was difficult to ridding in a crowded traffics like Surabaya, especially on coaster-hub type.
Fongers brand was very old and more expensive than Gazelle or Simplex, that’s why people in here not entirely used that ones. But I think HZ or BB Fongers types was more elegan and seem aristocrats. I was appreciate on the transmision of brake sistem.
best wishes,
Andrian
Dear andree,
we are happy to find your contact.
about old bicycles:
in indonesia, for about thirty to sixty, bicycles is very luxuriant properties. not every people could buy them because it was very expensive (one bicycle maybe equivalent with 10 buffalo). so the were very care them in the treatment. everyday even three times a day they rub, and oiled all the chroom. (no problem oil food). that’s why until now in indonesia still lot of dutch bicycle in good and original conditions.
about cost :
100 eur until even 1000 eur for only one old bicycle is very expensive for us but our people buy that. because they are rareness. and interesting to be collected. but not every old bicycle have high value. many old bicycle only 5 eur to 10 eur. they are only for transportation.
about quantity :
of course, we have still thousands old bicycle because indonesia have larger people than holand. we have about 75 million people in thirty. think if 0,1% have one bicycle, how many bicycle were here?
maybe it will be nice if you come to indonesia. you can meet old bicycle club in many town.
it’s nice to meet you..
Dear Andre,
I am one of bikes lover, living in Jogjakarta…
Welcome to the community!
Thanks for your comments and attention to our website (the bikes lover). Seeing the ‘unique’ problems we have to maintain the old vintage bikes, for me, is the risk that we have to struggle on it so that we can solve out its specific problems. (like what some people did, by making some of its components by theirself) If you admire of how we can maintain the old bikes in a good conditions up to now, in the other hand, I personally admire of the way your goverment set up the bikes as an alternative trasportation in spite of public transportation.
I saw in some pictures in your country, there are almost always bicycles on the photos. It seems that in Holland (and some other European contries) give the special track for bikes to ride, and it seems, it is more enjoyable to do cycling rather than using motor cycles in Holland.
I think, like other friends in this community, it is also one of our goals to try to push the goverment to make the bicycles to be the main urban tranportaion vehicles.
Finally, I am pleased if you could send us photos of the bikes community in Holland with its special track or which is used for daily activities. Thanks.
dening kiye pada ngomong inggris kabeh…
inyong mung ndomblong, bae enggane…..
Dear Mr. Koopmans.
Could tell us a bit on the difference between Gazelle (the Andre Vlaanderen version and the Andre Viaanderen version). I often finds it difficult to determine which one is the earlier type or maybe for “the worst” which one is the fake one (Gazelle)? is it the Viaanderen or the Vlaanderen.
… and would you tell us about the story behind my 28cm-necked-omafiets EMPO. As you see they (rijwiel.net) dont have much information on the bike except the year they (EMPO) begin to establish their foundation n’ their year of producing.
Now if you have an old photo(s) on the bike, please share them with us.
That would be all, I’m dying to get the answer sooner!!!
Best Regard,
Koembang Van Buitenzorg.
halah iya…. inyonge yo ora mudeng babar blas kiye….opo wong endonesia wis mangan roti karo keju, koyo wong inggris…
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In Holland a large number of male-pre-war-bicycles (and a bit newer) have high frame-sizes, 66cm, 72cm, 75 cm and even bigger, on Indonesian foto’s I saw only small-size frames, probably because Indonesian people are smaller than us tall Dutchies.
???? how do you measure the heights ???? is it from the ground or …..
There’ll be many questions coming out of my mouth in a fewest minutes ahead.
yo wis…balik ngapak-ngapak maning.. 😀
Sebenerna mah mumpung aya narasumber ti negeri aselina we ieu mah, jadi urang loba nanya …. lamun orang aselina mah pasti nyahoeun jawabana …. he..he..he bener teu Bro!
Hayo lo kalo bahasanya gitu abis makan apa ya?
… just an Ice-breaking comment from the Ol’ School Krontjong Ride Enthusiast
a.k.a.Koembang Van Buitenzorg.
Dear mas Bach, Laexs, Bung Chandra dan para ol’ brothers at KOBA, waktu itu hari Sabtu pagi di Jak TV katanya ada acara ontel …. siapa tuh klub representatifnya (KOBA atau POI atau yang lain).
Maklum antena di rumah gak nangkep Jak TV.
Btw …. Salut atas tim KOBA … saya yakin walau sifatnya Voluntarily semuanya total memajukan KOBA dan melestarikan Kreta Angin.
Keep up the good works.
no. 39…
emang bener Sabtu pagi di JAK-TV ada wawancara sama temen2 dr KOBA yg diwakili oleh Bung Ichan, Bung Laexs n mpok Reny…
makasih buat dukungannya…kapan maen ke bunderan HI lg ?
no. 33, owalah yo embuh dening dadi koyo kiye, maune sih kepriwe jajal. mandan mumet sirahe sinyo andre kae, lha akeh banget sing podho takon enggane…
seharusnye kalo ada temen-temen yang masuk tv di umumin jadi kite bisa ikutan nonton …. he..he..he..
Setuju buat Bung O.P, soalnya ane selulu ketinggalan terus,kalo ada liputan tentang ontel di teve,anekan ngga nongkrongin teve terus,ntar kapan ngontelnye??..
Life Old Bicycle, Never die
Dear Indonesian enthosiasts,
What a lot of questions ! where shall I begin !?
First mr. Mustofa;
I understand bicycles have been very very expensive for the people in indonesia for a very long time, that has been bad for a long time because everybody had to walk, but now you are lucky because old bikes have been treated very well all those years. So now lots of them are in a very good shape !
In Holland there is another reason why there still are oldtimers used daily. In Holland there were many bicycle-factory’s and they made their bikes cheaper and cheaper trying to sell more than the other factory. Because of this bicycles were affordable for most of the people, even in the 1930’s a lot of people in Holland had a bike.
There were also a lot of old bicycles and during the years after the war there came even more and more.
The Dutch bicycles were of a very good quality in the 30’s – 60’s so they stayed good for a very long time.
Lots of old bikes are gone now but because there were so many there are many left, and they are cheap because in Holland most people do not care about them…..
In Holland live about 17 million people and they have about 23 million bicycles !! So there are much more bicycles in Holland than people !! Now you know it is no wonder why on almost every photo from Holland there is a bicycle, haha !
Holland has the most bicycles per inhabitan in the whole world.
Every Dutchman/women has one or more bicycles, mostly one to go to work with and one (mountainbike or racingbike) for the weekend and holliday.
Patub-jogja;
It is true in Holland there are a lot of special facilities made especialy for bicycles.
In Holland it is normal that next to almost every important road there are on both sides of this road bicycle-roads, called “fietspad”. Only bicycles are allawed to ride there
Thrue the whole country there are also beautiful “fietspaden” (bicycle-roads of about 1,8 meter whide) through nature , through woods, on top of dikes, besides rivers etc, these are special made for pleasure riding on bicycles (after work and in the weekend and holliday’s) Especially in the summer lots of people enjoy riding on their bike on these fietspaden, you don’t have to care about cars or other motorised trafic, they don’t ride there.
From the north to the south of Holland is only 300 km, but there are a vew thousends of kilometers of these special (recreation) fietspaden in Holland !
I live close to a small village in the north of Holland and there are many fietspaden around.
During the weekend if the weather is nice, I like to make tours on my 1937 Gazelle No. 8. Because Holland is almost flat you can easily make tours of 25, 50 or even 100 km on a day.
It is a pity some people are scared to use their old bike because they are afrait they get worn.
I have collected a lot of spareparts during the (about 8) years I became a “old-bike-freak”, so I am not afrait of that.
My daily bike is a Gazelle of 1937, it is in a very good condition, in the 1950’s it has been back to the Gazelle-factory for a revision, this was reather common in Holland in the first half of the last century, untill the 1950’s.
Espesially the Fongers and the Gazelle factory had a special revision-facility in the factory that totaly overhault the old bicycles of their own make.
If you had a worn Gazelle bike you send it back to the factory and you got it back “as good as new”.
Now this is not possible any more at the Gazelle factory, and Fongers past away….
Mr. Wieradjaja,
Andre Vlaanderen worked for the Gazelle factory from about 1918 until some years after the war (I don’t know exactly the year). He was the designer of all the beautiful Gazelle “catalogussen” all those years, he made all drawing of advertisements, he also designed the “Gazelle-Badge” that is put on front of every Gazelle.
From 1925 (from the first “badges” with the whole gazelle on top instead of only the head before 1925) his name “Andre Vlaanderen” (with an “L”) was put on the underside of the badge. this badge the factory used until approximately 1946.
After the war, when old stock of badges made before the war was spend, the name “Andre Vlaanderen” was gone.
Also they were used from appr. 1925 -1946.
Andre Viaanderen is probably a badge from the newer series (1947 and newer) where some creative Indonesian tried put the name “Andre Vlaanderen” under, to let it look older….,but he did not spell the name in the correct way !
I did also see other such things on pictures from Indonesia, “made in Holand” was written an old Dutch bike, Holland is with 2 “L”s, so this must be fake. I saw more bicycle-parts with names of manufacterers (sometimes even spelled wrong) from Holland but I could see they were not realy from Holland….
A lot of you Indonesians want to see pictures from here, I can imagine that you are very curious, but at the moment I can not do this because I am very busy at home to rebuild an old farmershouse in the country we bought a while ago.
The roof is leaking, the walls are bad etc., It is a lot of work and a lot of our things (fotocamera) are somewhere in a carton box……
On the Yahoo-site there are some of my bikes and a lot of other nice examples from other dutch members of “de oude fiets”.
When our house is ready and I find my camera back (I hope, haha) I will make a lot of pictures, so you can see more of our old bikes and other bicycle related things from Holland.
The height of a (Holland-)bike is always measured from the middle of the crank-axel until the top of the saddle-lug of the frame (where the saddle-pen goes into the frame). exept on old Fongers-bicycles, at Fongers they measured from the top of the cranck-lug until the top of the saddle-lug of the frame. This frame-height is on old Fongers always stamped on the left of the under steering-lug of the frame. (HZ 75 is also “Heren” type Z and 75 cm frame-height)
Most bikes in Indonesia will be 58, 62 or maybe 66 cm frames or something.
Fongers was indeed a more expensive bike and bought by people with a bit more money, also in Holland.
Although a Fongers cost only a bit more money than for instance a Gazelle.
For one time I come back on value of old bicycles in Holland;
This weekend I bought an original old “Veeno” (an old Dutch bikemaker from Bedum in Groningen), I think the bike is from the end of the 1920’s. I saw it on a “rommelmarkt” (once a month in our village, a market on the streets of old stuf). It was for sale together with 20 old dutch bicycles, they cost 15 euro eatch.
So the “Veeno” was mine for 15 euro, this is the same money you pay in Holland for one cheap new bicycle-tire or a cheap new saddle. That is about the money you pay in Holland for an old, but complete old Bicycle with a lot of work to make is in top-shape again.
I also have a motorcycle, I like driving this also, but in Holland you have to drive slowly with it otherwise the police takes away your drivers-licence and give you a “heavy” speeding-ticket.
But it is difficult to drive slowly with a fast motorbike, this problem I don’t have on a bicycle, on my bicycles I can ride as fast as I want, haha !
I am so sorry, but I do not think I come to Indonesia, it is very expensive and I have to spend a lot of money to rebuild my house. Maybe in a copple of years, when the house is ready and I can afford a ticket !
If Indonesia was a bit closer to Holland I would certanly come.
Thank you for the invetations, I appriciate this very much.
Than there was a question about an EMPO, I do not have an EMPO, I know they were made in Vorden, but I have no pictures of old EMPO’s, i am sorry.
Where I live you don’t see many EMPO’s, this is because they were produced in the east of Holland and I live in the North.
It sounds stupid but in a small country as Holland you see most of the Bicycles of a manufactorer in de neighbourhood of the factory !
In the west of Holland (Amsterdam and neighbourhood) you find a lot of Simplex, Burco, Magneet and Locomotief.
In the North where I live there are mostly old Fongers, Phoenix, Germaan, Veeno, Gruno, Batavus.
The east of Holland there are mostly EMPO, Union, Burgers bicycles you find.
Gazelles ( the biggest factory) are everywhere ! Gazelle still exists and is (one of the) biggest manifactorers of Holland.
The Gazelle factory itself is a beautiful old building, it is on the monumental building-list in Holland, I have been there a while ago, and made some nice pictures of it.
5 years ago I worked in the “Batavus”-bicycle-factory in Heerenveen for a few months.
It is a pity nowadays the quality of bicycles from Holland is not as good as it was in the 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and 60’s.
Bikes are build now to ride for 5-10 years, than you are supposed to buy a new one…. (I don’t like new bicycles, old quality is so much better)
Now I stop to write my friends, otherwise I’d rather write a book !
This must be already the longest mail in the Indonesian history, haha !!
Kind regards,
Andre
Dear Andre,
It is very facinating to have a quite detail explanations from you ( you right, I felt of reading a book than an email). I am jealous of reading the facilities provided in Holland for ‘fiets’ rider, I wonder when we have the same facilities for us in our country. At least, I will start it from myself, by riding the bike everyday, I also meant not to add some carbon poluted gas to my town.
For daily riding, now, I used my ‘male’ Gazelle serial number 8 as well (old enough) and another ‘female’ neo Simplex no. 5.
I used to ride England bicycle of Raleigh and Humber, but now I prefer to use those two Ducth bikes.
Ok, have a good work on renovating your farm house, please keep in touch with us on your leisure time. Viva oude fiets! Thanks.
keterangannya andre bisa jadi bahan buat nulis buku tuh
I put a few (not so good) scan’s of 6 of my Gazelle-bicycles on;
There are also a few pictures of 2 of my selfmade other vehicles
Andre
What an Information, Mr Koopmans !!
It seems that I just red an email not from Andre Koopmans, but Andre Vlaanderen itself 😀 .
Reading your email, I feel that I still know nothing about oldbikes n motivate me to learn more n more….
I do like oldfiets, especially Simplex Cycloide (I have 3) I like the character n the soul in it, and the others are Fongers, Gazelle No.5, Magneet transportfiets (X frame) and “Female’ Dwi Warna-Indonesia’s House Brand (Batavus), and all of those located in Jogja, where my house is…
Perhaps you have any other information or picture to share, you can also send it to david_p_hutajulu@yahoo.com ,
So I can learn more from the expert…
regards,
_dph_
Hello Andre,
Your Dutch old bikes collections was amazed me. I just want to know, have you repainted or it still on a vintage one? thanks.
Andrian
Man !!! I thanked you a lot dear Mr. Koofman.
So my old EMPO is quite rare isn’t it? I’m happy to hear that. May God bless yer nu home.
Best regard!
Koembang Van Buitenzorg
Hello Andyt and others,
I only repaint old bicycles when they are totaly rusted or they are already repainted by a previous owner and I can not get the “new” paint of the original.
When I bought my Fongers “dubbeldekker” some years ago, it was repainted by some previous owner. I have been busy every evening for about a week with “thinner” to take this paint away, and very slowly the nice big “golden” Fongers-front transfer and the nice green striping etc. became visible again ! Not a nice job but it was worth it !
I, and I hope you too, always try to bring a bike back in as much as possible original state.
I always repair if possible in stead of replacing by new.
Mr Wieradjaja,
EMPO was not a big factory in Holland, I don’t know how many EMPO’s are exported to Indonesia.
In Holland you don’t see them a lot any more, but they are not very rare here in Holland.
I wished I found back my camera and could make some pictures of my other bicycles. I have 2 old bicycles that are new ! One is a gray-coloured 1958 Gazelle No.1 cross-frame witch stood in a dry garage under a blanket for about 45 years before I found it, it has only been used for about 50 km or so. In fact it’s brand-new and a real beauty !!
The other one is a 1939 female Gazelle “A” witch is also new !
The ( than new) bike was hidden for the German soldiers in the war and after the war forgotten….. in 1999 it was found back and put on “Marktplaats”, I was first who saw it and immediatelly bought it. It is realy a new 1939 Gazelle ! Even the original tyres with “GAZELLE” “written” in the profile are still new and just a little dry.
I often look at the Marktplaats site, sometimes there are amazing old bikes for sale on it between a lot of rubbish.
http://www.maktplaats.nl select “fietsen en assecoires” and click on “oldtimers”
Many people in Holland sell there old bicycle (sometimes a “real” oldtimer) on this site.
greetings,
Andre
Sorry, it is http://www.marktplaats.nl
I forgot the “r”.
Andre
Dear mr Andre Koopmans..
I would like to ask you something about urban life in holland..
I saw some picture from my friend in german and holland, and they still using an antique bicycle which is verry old type in indonesia..
what I try to ask you is… Do the bicycle also old type and they treats it verry carefully or that just the brand new push-bike in old model?….
I just want to know how to match the modren urban -lifestyle with old kind of vehicle…
I m looking forward for you answer.. Thanks..
-ADI-
Hello Adi,
I am not shore wich type of bicycle you have seen on the picture of your friend, but I think that you mean the old type like the bicycles from Holland you have in Indonesia.
In Holland you can still buy these “old fashion” model new.
“Gazelle” and “Batavus” and a few other dutch factory’s still produce them, they look a lot like the old “machines” we like so much.
In Holland we call it “oma-fiets”(female) or “opa-fiets” (male).
Especially the female-type, also a (mostly) black bike with the “round-bend”frametube (like most oldtimer-holland-bicycles), is still popular in Holland.
Many girls in Holland have such a bicycle, they have the old-fashion-look, but in fact lots of those bikes are ordered very cheap by big shops (made in china or taiwan).
In Holland you can buy those bikes very cheap, they are not so good quality and they are centainly not treated well.
I am sorry to say it, but in Holland most people do not tread there bicycles well. This is because in Holland a bicycle is like shoes, everybody has them and just use them. Most people in Holland just do not think about treating there bicycle, like they do not think of treating their shoes, they just use them, and that’s it. If they are worn out, than they buy new….
In the big city’s like Amsterdam people often have a cheap old bicycle ( no oldtimer, just about 20 years old or so).
When they park their bike somewhere at a shop or a train-station they have to lock theme with a big chainlock at a bridge or a fence or a lighting-pole or something, otherwise the bike is often stolen….
In the big city’s you can buy those “old” (rubbish) bicycles for 10 to 25 euro, that is the money a normal man in Holland earns by working for about 1 hour ! very cheap also.
If you like to ride on a beautiful old bicycle in Holland, like me, it is better not to park the bicycle somewhere, thieves love them also…. and they destroy every lock…..
I live in the country and here bicycles are not stolen so often.
People like me, who love old dutch bicycles and treat them well, there are not so much in Holland.
the positive thing about that is that people like me can sometimes buy beautiful oldtimer bicycles very cheap !
My daily bicycle is a 1937 Gazelle No. 8 (see comment 48), and I often hear “what a beautiful old bike you have there !”, people in Holland also see that it is an oldtimer and they like that, but they don’t want to have an oldtimer themselves.
That is why “vereniging de oude fiets” only has a vew hundered members.
Or have you seen something else on a picture of your friend?
I don’t know what a “push-bike” is.
Have a nice weekend,
Andre
Thank’s for your answer mr Koopmans..
thats describe the way of urban people treat the push bike..
but one thing that I feel sad is here in Indonesia poeple dont like to use push bike for daily urban live, they rather go by motorized vehicle event they have proplem to buy gasoline and maintenance..(event sometime they shy to use it to work..except the expensive one).
Sallutation for Dutch people.. they still apreciate push bike event there are so many high tech vehicle…they dont shy to use it daily.
“what a beautyful life there”…….Heaven for push bike rider!
– Adi Saputra-
Hi there Mr. Koopmans,
If you don’ mind, I do also want to ask you some questions,
1. Do you have any information, more over some detail pictures, about “Simplex Gliding Bicycle”?, because I often heard about it, but never found n see the picture in any.
2. Do the x frame models was a special collectible bike in Holland? or they also treat them just like their shoes (no special treatment).
regards n big thanks for your answer,
david_p_hutajulu
Dear, Mr Koopmans…
Can you give me some website that describe (or some photo) about Humber?
Just simple request…
Thanks a lot.
Dear Pande, David and Adi,
About Humber I don’t know much, I only have bicicles from Holland. maybe you can look at the website of English bicycle-lovers like http://sheldonbrown.com/articles.html or http://web.mac.com/hadland1/iweb/Tony/index.html .
I am sorry I can not help you, the only thing I know is that the factory was taken over by Raleigh in 1932 or something.
The Simplex “zweeffiets” is very rare, it was introduced in 1953 and only produced for a short time. You can see a picture of it on http://www.rijwiel.net/simplexn.htm .
I know 2 people who have a Simplex Zweeffiets and I once had a ride on one of them, it is a very strange bicycle ! This bike was very expensive in those years, in Holland you never see one riding on the streets any more.
Because they were so expensive and extrordinairy people did no buy these bicycles, the were a “flop” for Simplex, so they stopped producing them quickly. The bicycle has front and rear-suspension, but the construction is very weak, so the few bicycles witch were sold were broken in a short time and only a few of those strange Simplex’es are left now.
It is a nice bicycle to have for a collector also, not to ride on because of the weak construction…..
If you want a picture of this bike you may try to ask at info@oudefiets.nl, “Theo de Kogel” is the owner of such a bike, maybe he can give you more information or send you a foto.
The only one’s left are with collectors, mostly in Holland.
A few years ago I saw one for sale on “Marktplaats”, but it was sold in a few minutes for a lot of money !
cross-frames (X) wich are used as a normal “from home to work-bike” you do not see a lot any more on the streets nowadays.
Most of them are collected by people who want a special old bicycle and mostly those bikes are treated well.
Because you don’t see them so much any more, they are also more expensive, I think 2x as expensive as a normal oldtimer.
The most oldtimer-crossframes you see in Holland are the Locomotief “unisex-crossframe, they look like a female crossframe and they are not so populair. than there are the cross-frame Gazelles, many collectors in Holland have such a bike or try to get one. I think a good third are the Simplex crossframes, just like the Gazelle, these are so well made they don’t get worn and so there are quite a lot left over.
Sometimes I see a Junker or a Batavus crossframe, but they are selldome.
In Holland they make new crossframe-bicycles and other oldtimer-look bicycles, one of the better bicycle-factory’s in Holland at the moment is the Azor factory in Hoogeveen, a few years ago I visited the factory and I think they still make a bit of the old quality holland-bicycles, see http://www.azor.nl/ for their website.
If I may give Indonesian “Holland-bicycle lovers” a good tip;
The website of Herbert Küner is the best by far, Herbert has a lot of knowledge of old dutch bicycles and he is still studiing some old markes. As soon as he has new information he puts it on his site. It is also for a big part in English, although the dutch part is the biggest. It is realy a very very good website !!
So if you want to know something about old bicycles from Holland, always look at http://www.rijwiel.net/ It gives a lot of reliable and correct good information.
Andre
Dear, Andre Koopmans…
Thank’s a lot, Andre…
It’s not the “WHAT”, BUT “HOW” you give…
Peace for all…
Thank you Mr. Koopmans for your detail answer,
Simplex is one of my favourite, and this “zweeffiets” just like a legend for me…, hopefully, I can find this type in the future, just to touch and see the details…
_dph_
Dear Andre Koopmans,
Thanks for your information hope you could give us more for us.
Hari
dear mr. andre koopman, my gazelle has frame numbers 4***** that you ever told it was made in 1935, but it has badge that written ANDRE VIANDEREN how is it mr?
Dear Mr.Andree kapan-kapan berkunjung ke indonesia saja biar semua kawan -kawan ontelis dapat bertatap muka dan berbagi cerita mengenai persepedahan tua di indonesia & Internasional, apalagi kalau pengurus KOBA mau mengundang Mr.Andree Ke Indonesia nanti pas acara ulang tahun KOBA ke.3 bakal semarak dan mengesankan bagi kawan-kawan semua.ok!
salam kenal buat smua …. ikutan ya….
tuk yudis_dkp,
setuju oi.., Mr.Andre klo bisa diundang waktu ulang tahun KOBA. Biar dia bisa kasih banyak ilmunya buat onthelis Indonesia.
dear pak Andre, i have gazelle 3rd series, how old is it ?
Hi,
I’m Ivan from Jakarta, Indonesia. Hope we can do some corporation regard my website, http://www.gowes-ina.com. If there is something I can do for you and the bicycle community, please let me know.
Regards,
Ivan R Palenewen
Pak Zadel, Mas Okidikelantan, Den Sunurawa,….sepi banget yaa,? insiden 2 agustus benar-benar membuat sedih kita semua…..semoga yang ditinggal diberi kesabaran( saya ditelepon adik almarhum, pak Jeffry onthelis bandung, waduhhh leuleus tu’ur )……….semoga yang ditinggal diberi kekuatan mengatasi cobaan yang berat ini!!!!! kendor uey…
innalillahi waínna illaihi rojiún
adoooohh lagi2 si sdp ontel oltimer bikin kangen
mudik naikin gazellenya si penjajah nicht
Man kito wong indonesia juga nicht
kalau masalah harga gila banget di indo man! tapi di londo biaya hidup jg mahal jd gak bisa hi bandingkan dgn di indo
tu hobby oldtimer emang gila di indo tp baguslah mengingat masa lalu nenek moyang kita jd spd peninggalan penjajah masih di abadikan ya enggak!!! man
okelah salam dr negri kincir angin
merdeka
Thanks for sharing such a pleasant thought, post is
pleasant, thats why i have read it fully
syahdan…. akhirnya andre koopman bisa mengunjungi indonesia juga, tepatnya bln maret th 2013, setelah 6 tahun menunggu ……